2020 Topps Baseball Forum

I seem to have ruffled a few feathers. I'm truly sorry about that.

David, there is no way to add the definition to a set's glossary without having been added. My point was that there needs to be a clear reason, plan, etc., to using a new abbreviation. That's what I meant by it has to have a definition before we use it. When we wanted to denote a "Rookie Card", we added "RC". It was defined before use. SSSP was being used without a clearcut definition.

I am actaully also against the idea of using SSP instead of simply "SP", no matter what degree of "shortness" the card is, is still a card that was printed in less quantity than the "normal" cards in that set. Adding that info to Note2 would take care of those who wish to show that these cards have a "...117" number on the back or are are SSSPs. That's Note2 material. Not "Note". But apparently since Beckett uses the term, we're going to sheep our way into using it too. Next we'll be adding numbers to unnumbered cards like they do too.

Again, I'm sorry I got involved, attempting to let the members know what site guidelines are. I'll step away and let people go rogue. Enjoy.

I was going to PM you, David, but I see you turned off messages. All I wanted to say was:

Don't take out your anger directed at me on Admin.

That's a valid opinion, and that's why we're talking about it -- the reason I even brought it up is I didn't want to just add something new without having cleared it with you all first. You also brought up the point about not using abbreviations that aren't yet in the glossary. That makes complete and total sense.

I think the fundamental disagreement here is the purpose of the checklists. Look, are 95% of collectors who have collected for years and years and understand Topps' shenanigans and who keeps up somewhat with news in the hobby going to know that some short prints are rarer than others?  And are they going to understand what the "117" code means? Yeah, most likely. 

However, think about someone new to the hobby or even someone 10 years from now who doesn't know anything about this set. Are they going to know what the "116" and "117" codes mean? I certainly don't think so. Yes, they could find out with some research if they really cared, but I feel like that is not an ideal solution when it would take a very, very minimal amount of effort to make it clearer by just listing them as SSSPs.

Just so everyone is on the same page with regards to abbreviations and the glossary.....

Outside of some of the major terms that are universal... an abreviation is added to a card first.  That abbreviation then shows up in the glossary for that set.  Then the abbreviation needs to be defined in the glossary for that set.  Essentially a procedural thing. 

Problem is literally any abbreviation could be created.  The issue (I think, and somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) is that as a website, we need to attempt to keep the abbreviations relatively uniform and universal.  I don't have a dog in the fight, so to speak, as to whether SSSP should be a thing or not.  I think its worth communicating somehow that there are different levels of short print within a set.  How we get there just needs to be within standard practices for the website.

Here is an example of what splinter is referring to: https://www.tcdb.com/GlossaryS.cfm/sid/153722/2013-Perna-Studios-Spellcasters.  I have no idea what "/50" represents - is it that the cards are SN? Is it a PR? Nothing on the card image indicates to me what it might mean.  And the individual who entered the Note failed to finish the work by going into the Glossary and defining it.

Back in 2018, 4 of us worked for months on setting guidelines and defining the Note and Note 2 field entries.  The final product was approved by Admin and is accessible in the FAQ.  After it was approved, the clean up of the Glossary Terms was done and the Missing Abbreviations https://www.tcdb.com/MissingAbbreviationDesc.cfm was dwindled down to at times zero.  But we still have some members who obviously do not care to read how to do things properly and therefore we see this number go up and down. 

This is just another area where those who work hard to keep this site accurate eventually get frustrated as some members fail to read the Site's Guidelines and just do what they wish.  If you have ever taken the time to get involved in any of the major projects that do occur on this site whether it be this one or the revision of a major release set to include every imaginable VAR, you might better understand how some dedicated members get frustrated.

I fixed the notes on the Perna card. Modern art-themed Non-Sports sets release print runs but are not numbered, although a few are...rarely. Some are printed on-demand, like Topps Now, but that's a whole other can of worms...

Edit for clarity: Not on-demand, but based on how many are pre-ordered. I don't want any to get deleted because somebody took what I said to mean ACEO- that's not the case at all. I think several legitimate sets were already removed by someone convincing Admin that they were ACEO cards. I saw locked down IRs on the Island Dreams sets but forgot to send off a message to Admin letting him know those are legit cards. 

Thanks Billy.

This is dragging on and on and on.......Not sure if this was already suggested, but how about this....(and not sure if someone suggested this or not?  Dan maybe?)

The Note field we put SP no matter how short of a print run it is.  This is defined in the Site glossary as a Short Print.  In the Notes2 field, can be designated SP, SSP, SSSSSSSSSSSSP or however many S's Topps, Beckett, SCD, whoever want to designate.  Along with this....in the release notes, can be entered all the "odds" for the SP's, as well as any other hits. 

Possibly with some development of the DB, the "odds" section could get added to the Collection Overview page and as a "Set Link" along the side as you look at your collection overview.  This way, as was mentioned, if you are grizzed vetran collector that can't read those tiny codes at the bottom of the card for the life of you....or if you are newbie collector that has no clue what they may mean, you can refer to the "Odds" section to check it.  

"Odds"  "Insert Codes" whatever it would make the most sense to name it.

I sent a question to Topps to see if they have a name for it or a print run. who knows if that gets answered...

as a newcomer and one still trying to learn the site and not make changes, I would say the major issue in this thread is not what to call it, it's how people are being treated. condescending and rudeness have often prevailed from many sides. I'm sure we can find ways to stress the importance an issue holds for us without resorting to these tactics. I'm sure because that is the norm on this site, not so much this thread.

To answer a much earlier question, yes "SSSP" is the commonly used terminology in the industry now.  See here, here, and here.  Cardboardconnection and Beckett are the two main sites that collectors use to catalog the variations as Topps does not release checklists for these items.  Beckett did not use the term for Series 1, but Cardboardconnection did.  Now they are both using it for Series 2.

There were four of them discovered in Series 1, and so far there have been 4 found in Series 2.  My guess? There will be 4 in Update as well.

I don't understand the amount of negativity that comes with any post regarding variations that Topps puts out.  There is a lot of "get off my lawn" mentality on this site.  If you don't collect variations, that is just fine.  You think it's a gimmack?  Great.  I'm a set collector and I don't collect just team sets, but I don't think the folks that do are ridiculous or silly as collectors.  Collect what you want and what gives you joy.

Something that people clearly don't understand about what Topps is doing is that by adding all of the variations and inserts, they are keeping the price of the products down.  The wholesale price has changed little in the last 10 years.  What vendors do on the secondary market has little to do with what Topps charges.  And how are all of these inserts keeping prices down you ask?  Simple...by keeping supply and demand in balance.  In the 90's, cards were everywhere, but there were no inserts.  Now, those cards are still everywhere because millions were printed.  Now, they still print the same number of cards, but just a much wider variety which allows us to find cards wherever we may want.  They aren't a nickel a pack any more, but gas isn't a quarter a gallon any more either.

OK...stepping down from my soap box.