General Forum

I've long suspected that the notion of the short print has been promulgated to drive up prices. I'm thinking here especially of vintage Topps baseball. I have no doubt that some higher series were printed in fewer numbers, but I believe the scarcities are exagerated. Does anyone know of documentation from Topps (or other companies) that tracks production? Are there other ways to document that "short prints" or "higher number" cards are indeed rarer than other common cards? 

It's funny you should bring that up..I remember 1992 Bowman being in very short supply, the reason being was that card shop owenres didn't do well on 1991 Bowman, so they didn't buy the 1992 set...then, with Piazza, Ramierez and all teh rookies in that set, all of a sudden every shop owner had all the 1992 Bowman rookies...I am all for making a living, but to propogate a lie is not only wrong, but it is unethical...

I agree with you on the hype to drive up not only prices but sales in collectors / investors trying to find that elusive SP.  I do not know of prodcution release #s for the vintage but it has always been said that series 5-6-7 were produced in fewer #s due to a predicted fewer sales in the late season as interest diminished.  I also know when buying partial sets, it is in the hi #s that there are fewer cards to be had.

It's relative. Some cards are genuinly short printed, while others were double or even triple printed. For an example, the short prints in 1989-90 Hoops are only SPd because they were replaced on the sheets with other cards for series 2. There's still thousands if not millions of them out there, but technically they are shorter printed than cards that were run in both series. 

From my experience opening thousands of packs and boxes over the years, superstars seems to be less available than less popular/talented players. Not talking about autographs or anything, just simple base cards.

I could never understand why printing quantities were never made public or published.  The US mint atleast has pretty accurate estimates.  Then it's up to the collectors to decide how many survived. 

Knowing EddieLeon as a trade partner, he's asking mainly about vintage cards. And Bru's response is what I've heard from card shop owners who've supposedly collected since the 60s. There are a couple of issues that I wonder if possibly there may be some embelishment going on: 1) short prints; and 2) the first and last card of vintage sets being the hardest to find in better condition than its counterparts. I personally believe there's an element of truth on the matters, but I can only base it on hearsay (or, read-say), not firsthand knowledge.

If you got hold of every uncut sheet Topps ever printed, you'd see the short prints in the vintage sets.  That's legit.

Price bursts from the 80s and 90s were just the result of demand underestimating or market manipulation.

Thanks all for your insights. 

And yes, my collecting vantage point is narrow--mostly Topps baseball pre-1975. I don't doubt that short prints exist. I understand, for example, that in 1968 Topps issued fewer Series 6 cards than Series 2 cards. But my suspicion is that the disparities between Series 2 and Series 6 may be exaggerated to benefit sellers. 

As collectors (I"m primarily a buyer who trades to complete sets) we're disadvantaged by the lack of transparency. Topps production numbers would be very helpful in this regard. If we were trading in steel, or automobiles, or pablum, we'd need to know something regarding supply/demand. In vintage baseball cards, we're riding blind, too reliant on lore.  

Vintage Card Curator (YouTube) has done some good work to measure supply using PSA submissions. His careful documentary work has raised critical questions about inconsistencies in PSA grading. I know that's a related thread, but I'm very admiring of his work.   

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjZETYGTgVeAnpFR99RZKZw

As for vintage "short prints" within a set, I don't know of any, other than in cases like 59 Fleer, where #68 was pulled mid season, certain errors and/or the corrections, or cards like the 1974 Washington Nationals.  High numbers aren't really SPs.  However, double prints were common in some older sets, doubling up certain cards in a series to get a full sheet of cards when printing them.

Thanks Joe. I may be using "ShortPrint" incorrectly as a term that broadly includes cards or series that were printed in fewer numbers than the rest of the set. 

Have always loved those Washington 1974 cards--and really thought the team name was going to be the "National Leaguers". I was 8.