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While this is being discussed, what is everyones opinion on player linked cards showing up in their player totals on the site? For example, my collection shows me having 9 Braden Shewmake cards, including this one

https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/sid/241380/cid/15983895/2021-Topps-194-Atlanta-Braves

On my google sheet that i track my collection on, I have this simply as "Atlanta Braves" and would keep it with my team cards. Even if I PC Shewmake, or any of the others listed, I would not group this in with him

It's just how the linking system works. If he's linked, it counts. If he isn't, it doesn't. There isn't anything more advanced than that.

There are about 800 listings for him, mostly variations on about 40 cards. I truly do not understand the logic of wanting to exclude one team card that has him in the photo. Because it messes with the totals? But wait, are collectors of Shewmake expected to acquire all 800 or so variations? But not that one team card with him on it?

Help me understand.

I've been a stranger to the hobby for about 30 years.

If a Bill Russell collector wants a complete collection now, does he or she need to collect about 3100 cards, 99.9% of which were produced after he retired, mostly variations of tributes, plus some obscure cards like a rare Yugoslavian sticker, but not the only Topps card from when he was an active player/coach besides his rookie, because it's a team card, even though he's featured prominently on the card set apart from the rest of the team?

There are no hard and fast rules for what constitutes a "complete" collection for a team or player collector.  Personally, if I collected specific players, I'd want to include every card with him on it, but not everyone would give the same answer--it's going to depend on the individual collector.  The DB has to have some consistent standards, and when it comes to team cards I think the thought process is that it's better to only link if you can absolutely, 100% identify the people in the picture rather than having players misidentified.  Is a Bill Russell collector supposed to collect every card that lists Bill Russell, even if he's not on the card?

Let me give you a couple other DB rules that complicate things for me as a team collector.  I collect Cleveland Browns cards (actually every football team from NE Ohio, but whatever).  For *ME* that includes college cards of Cleveland Browns draft picks.  It would be easier for me if those players were linked to the Browns even when they are shown in college uniforms, but I understand the reasoning behind the decision not to.  Similarly, when a player changes teams during the offseason, I want the card if he's listed as being a Cleveland Brown, OR if he's listed as a member of his new team but shown in a Browns uniform on the card.  The DB rules are to link only to the team that is specifically identified on the card, even if it's in the text on the card back.  That means I have spent quite a bit of time scanning galleries to make sure I have as complete a list as possible, and it's not even as simple as looking through simply the base set.  One of the Score sets (2008?) shows Leigh Bodden in a Browns uniform, but the card is identified as a Detroit Lions card (Bodden signed with the Lions as a free agent).  OK, no problem, so I acquired the Bodden cards as well.  It turns out, however, that in some of the parallel sets, Bodden is actually shown in a Lions uniform.  I don't really want those, but that was my first indication that I couldn't simply check the base set and assume the parallels would be the same.  It sucks for me as a team collector, but I understand there needs to be some standards for how things are done, and I didn't create the site.

This is why this site is the best.   It is for all types of collectors.   Admin has set rules, which is not always followed (crowd sourced issue).  This causes frustration with some members.   All of us agree/disagree with the rules, depends on the way we collect and what we want.

There may be some Bill Russell cards with him clearly in the background.  Some collectors may even go after them.  They would really have to look hard to find them.  I have several cards with Husker players in the back ground.  I do not chase them but will take them if someone find them and is willing to give them to me.  Which has happen.

No one has said you can not link the name of the players in the team picture.   You just must be 100% sure of the players.   Here is where I'm not sure.  DO you need to know all the players or if you are 100% sure of a few?

As for the other example with the Braves   Admim has OK to add links if you can verify 100% that that player is on the card.  This goes for the Fleer Team Action cards and others.  ONLY players that can be verified 100%

You can always ask Admin.

Thank you for the thorough reply, glenn.

Collecting cards that include a player incidentally in the background on other players' cards would constitute the line of sanity for this site. As budler says, if a collector wants to go that far, they should, I respect ultra-completism. (Although I shudder at the thought of being, say, a Lebron completist, and having to collect over 14000 cards, versus a player like Dr. J who retired with only a little over 100 cards, including the obscure and foreign.) Perhaps an unlinked sub-database that keeps track of such cards just for individual superstars would be cool. There's a Blowout thread right now compiling a list of those cards for Jordan, Lebron, and Kobe. I'd love to see a list for Bird and Dr. J, too. Russell would be even more interesting, since there are only three officially issued individual cards for him as a player. And that's why I think it's important to list that 1975 Supersonics card for Russell, because it would be only his fourth major release card. I'll try to find the official team photo it's based on, but it's beyond obvious that he's on the card, he's front and center, separated from the players, there's zero ambiguity, and so yeah, I would suggest adding that card to his database even if the rest of the players can't yet all be identified officially. I also think the 1975 Celtics card is important for Red, even more so, because it looks like it'd be his major release rookie card.

wigglestrue wrote "I also think the 1975 Celtics card is important for Red, even more so, because it looks like it'd be his major release rookie card."

This is NOT true. It would not be a rookie card.

There are some user-created lists on the site that document "cameos" / incidental appearances of players on cards that aren't "theirs." The best example is  "Shows Wayne Gretzky" List / Cameo

There's the official team poster that the 1975 Topps card was based on. No one can possibly dispute that that is Bill Russell, right, lol? But for good measure, it also names him in print, just in case anyone had any doubt.

Sorry, I don't know the technical definitions used here, I apologize. To be a "rookie card", it must have to be a card dedicated solely to him, I presume? So then he would have no major rookie card. No major card, period. Not during his tenure. Only tributes. Would it at least count as his first major release card, were it listed?