General Forum

I got a plain white envelope in the mail Saturday. It was a PIF from KMack. The envelope was not in good condition. There was a small tear on one end of the back side and a big crease across the top of the envelope from one end to the other. It was stamped Non-Machinable on the front and back of the envelope. The damage did not come from it running through a sorting machine. Pieces of plastic fell out as I opened the envelope.

I talked to my Mom about it. She's worked for USPS for over 30 years and is high up in the Postal Union too. First, I'll show a scan of what happened to the "package". Then I'll tell you what she said.

She said that what happened here was most likely that the envelope was dumped into a bin for transport by truck to the next facility. It landed in the bin at an angle against the edge of it and something heavy got tossed into the bin on top of it. That crushed the top third of the envelope against the edge of the bin and shattered the toploader and bent the envelope and card too.

I've already PM'd KMack to tell him about it and LHK that I know it wasn't his fault. But this is the second time a PWE PIF has been disastrous. My first was a few years ago when I sent someone 4 minor base cards to help complete their set. The envelope and toploaders arrived. But an end of the envelope had been carefully slit to remove the contents and then the toploaders were put back in without the cards. It was maybe $2 worth of cards, but it ticked me off that someone would do that. Since they were freebies, there is no way the recipient lied about it. In essence, we both lost 4 cards in that one.

I'll never use PWE's to ship cards now (and haven't for the past several years) and I don't buy from or trade with people that will do it!

BTW, the card that got damaged was 1977 Topps #598 baseball. It has a crease from top to bottom about 1/3rd in from the left side on the front of the card.

I still love doing PWE trades. I have never had a problem and most of what I trade are commons. For what I save in shipping I can easily afford to take the risk. Generally it costs me $.70 to send up to 18 cards.

I won't ship using pwe. Really risky if you are selling. There is no tracking number so the buyer could just claim they didn't get it if they want and get their money back. If you get lucky and everything goes smooth you still don't have a tracking number and eBay will defect your account and make it harder to sell in the future for low uploading tracking metrics. I can see it being ok for somethings but a legit seller will never do this.

My opinion regarding PWE's is that likely the majority of trades conducted here involve mostly cards that are not worth a fortune. Where I would likely digress from them would be if the so called "value" was worthy of more than basic packaging which would vary from member to member. Packed properly and I realize you are at the mercy of the handling along the way I still feel it to be acceptable and obviously if it costs more to send than the "worth" maybe better to try and make the appropriate adjustment. Older/vintage trades likely necessitate better shipping methods.

I think you can still do PWEs but need to pack better, cardboard of some form. I like to use leftover gift cards [so what if it says "Get Well", lol] or photo mailers, both provide a little more "bendy" support.

Sorry that happened but I will continue to use PWEs for 99% of my trades. (Guess we won't be trading.) I've sent and received hundreds, maybe 1500 envelopes with cards.  The vast majority are PWE's. Given the value of most cards that trade hands, in my case, I just don't see the need to spend over 5 times the cost of sending a PWE.  I do agree that tracking is a wonderful feature though, but even that doesn't really mean anything.  I've had 2 purchases sent, with tracking, which never arrived.  When I asked at the Post Office I was told that "even with tracking things are lost". Near as I could determine the tracking only let the PO know where it disappeared.

I'm also sorry you had cards stolen through the mail, but that could have easily happened with a padded envelope.  I've opened enough of both to realize that an envelope is easier, but padded envelopes are pretty simple also.

When I propose a trade I usually include a line saying that I prefer to ship PWE. If I had a problem on a regular basis I'd probably feel different, but until that starts happening I'll stick with PWEs. 

I don't mind using a PWE for small value trades.  I guess it doesn't make much sense to me to spend $4 on a $2 trade.  I agree the traders need to be in agreement before the trade is made and that there is a risk involved.  I have had 2 cards get destroyed in the shipping process over the years. That is frustrating for sure .  

A drawing line for me has usually been between trading and selling. When I've sold most of the time it's gone out with tracking. With trades economy rules, and it depends on the size more than anything, and my profile states my basic mailing practices. I'm with both BSwagger and kcjays that I've not had any issues with PWE that I'm aware of (used freely to mean any type of mailing without tracking including large business envelopes), except in one sale to Germany came out of the pocket pages I'd used to send in a large business envelope. I simply sent another large envelope with improved security and they didn't fall out.

On the other hand I have received a couple of PWEs with the appropriate postage and markings of Non-Machinable that had subsequent postal marks of having ignored what they paid for, but the cards were fine. One package with tracking arrived surprisingly intact with a couple of holes on two sides of the bag, but not big enough to allow the contents to come out. 

I once received a PWE where the top loader was crushed exactly the same way.  My PO personnel told me it was from the rollers.      Better off not using a top loader in a PWE,  just go with the penny sleeve for inexpensive cards.  For more expensive cards, penny sleeve inside an envelope inside a rigid self-seal envelope.     i save every envelope I get in the mail, junk mail, etc.. and use those for the inner envelope.

I get one of these damaged packages per year, out of all the PWE trades (and buys through sportlots)

that damage percentage works for me to keep using pwe

all comes down to the value of the individual card...if more expensive, I will use different method..

mark