General Forum

Only if you allow yourself to be hookwinked. And "hoodwinked" implies that they're hiding stuff. They're not. They're just marketing in as many ways as possible. Don't fall for it. Collect what you want. Buy what you want. Don't "chase" stuff you don't need. I collect the Topps Gypsy Queen set every year. When they started making all the fun HOF cards shortprints, I just ignored them and consider my set "complete" with the non-shortprints. Just sort through it all and tailor your collection to your own needs. 

And have fun.

v3 

Exactly right v3. I collect base sets, no inserts, no parallels. My plan WAS to finish up all my Topps sets back to the year I was born (1956) and then build current sets as they come out and leave it all to my grandson when my time comes to quit life. I always enjoyed building sets when I was young, and I think I enjoy it even more now. However, after going thru all the BS with the Topps 2020 set (var cards because of a 'sparkle') I have decided that 2020 will be my last current set...I'll just finish all the sets I'm working on now (which I'll probably never be able to finish anyway LOL). We all have that choice. Somebody on here has a little note in their profile basically saying if you're 'collecting' cards to make a profit, you're investing (stupidly imo), not collecting. But it is a choice we all make...I choose not to play that game.

This is the truth of it — the changes are being predominantly demand side driven.

Yes, card companies can influence the market by what they produce. However, that supply-side infludence can only go so far as it requires buyers to accept what is out there. Something about leading horses to water and drinking...

Speaking from a basketball collecting perspective I have found a lot of positives in the current market, if you are willing to look for them.

While I love opening boxes/packs of cards I have not bought a box or pack since January due to the inflated prices. However, I just received a shipment of nearly 400 PC cards of Hakeem Olajuwon from Sportlots which including the international and box shipping came to less than $1 US a card. This included some of the harder to find (at least in NZ) 80s and 90s releases plus some memoribila cards and a whole bunch of 90s inserts including some of my favourite refractors, Fleer Metal and Stadium Club inserts. 400 PC cards for less than the cost of a box of Hoops — yes please!

For a similar cost I just purchased another collection of 1300 90s cards. Not a huge number but the chap was primarily an insert collector so was not a lot of base there. The lot included 140 MJ cards as well as multiple RCs of most of the 90s stars including Kemp, Payton, Penny, Shaq, Hill, Kidd, Garnett, Iverson, Kobe and Nash. He did have almost full sets of 95-96 and 96-97 Collector's Choice which I will gift to my 8 year old nephew for Christmas. Again all the less than the cost of a box of Hoops!

I think as collector's it is a great time tp focus on wpecifics you want to achieve. I know when I felt like buying cards I used to just order a box and get my fix opening that — and invariably I would not get much that I wanted out of it. Now I am much more focused on picking up PC cards and find my $ are being much more wisely spent!

All the best with your venture back in to the hobby.

Another, perhaps different, perspective is that the AU and MEM cards have created an interesting market for re-sale and it can enable some of us to collect for "fun" for a lot less overall money. Example, I love the Panini Diamond Kings cards. I think they are artistically done and aesthetically pleasing and I want the whole base set. When I buy a hobby box for $80-100 (for 96 cards), I'm almost hoping to pull a "hit" that I don't like so that I can turn around and sell it. With the right luck and timing, you can spend $80 on a box and sell 1 card and basically own 95 cards for free. Of course, that isn't my motivation, just an added side bonus that can increase my overall card count if I do it right. :)

I don't know, I look at the nice shiny new cards, and I think those are neat.  And if I get the urge to rip wax, my LCS has packs of 1991 Bowman football and 1989-90 Hoops real cheap.  I'll let some other guy spend the big bucks and take the risk.  My teams don't have the "popular" players (except Brady now) so I'll buy the stuff they didn't want for cheap.  I get cool new cards, but I don't get his  credit card bill.  Those guys will lower their prices once the Visa is maxed out.  They will be desperate for money.

Don't get me wrong, I like opening packs, and I was annoyed to spend $5 or $6 for one pack of 2020 Topps Update at the LCS.  But Topps didn't set that price. And I havent bought a whole box of flagship Topps since the turn of the century, so it's not like I've lost something recently.  My co-workers call me "frugal" among other things.  I've never been one to spend big bucks on this hobby.  I do like the occasional $20 blaster for wrestling, or $10 hanger box for other sports, but not very often.  And it does stink that they're hard to find this year.

100 years ago, back when cards were meant for kids, I guess I could have bought packs of cigarettes to get cards, but I don't smoke like the other kids.  I also don't chew gum.  I'm boring like that.

I have enjoyed seeing the wide and varied opinions on this thread, and most seem to be summed up as 'collect what you like, skip what you do not like'

mark

From the card companies' websites, as best as I could find:

Upper Deck

• "Vintage trading cards (generally viewed as prior to 1980) are highly collectible because they were produced in such limited quantities. During the 80’s and 90’s a high interest in trading cards created a need for more mass production, which in turn made values plummet on most releases. Today, Upper Deck believes it is critical to limit product production and take a more responsible approach to manufacturing, in order to increase trading card values."  [SOURCE] (bold added for emphasis)

Panini

• "What is the monetary value of my card or set?  We do not place any value on our cards for the secondary market. There are publications available such as Beckett Media ( www.beckett.com) or Tuff Stuff ( www.tuffstuff.com) which can help you determine the card values."  [SOURCE]

Topps

• (Couldn't find anything specifically related to card values or investment.)

It's been said before, probably in this thread too, but I'll say it again in relation to the Panini quote. A card is worth what someone will pay for it, not what a publication says it's worth. Two examples,

I recently started working on finishing the 04 Upper Deck FB "high number" set. A seller had the Manning rookie and Fitzgerald Rookie Prospect for a decent price and I made an offer (instead of BIN). He did the ole "I had the wrong price" trick and raised the price. Yeah, nice try buddy. A little patience later I got the Manning and Rivers cards, and the Manning, Rivers and Fitzgerald Rookie Prospects for less total than the first buyer.  

At a local card show, I was able to get a sweet ExMt 62 Mantle for less than 1/2 of what Beckett says it should go for, and that was just the sticker price. With the relationship I have wit hthe seller, well, I paid even less. A reason why I now believe I can actually complete that set someday. If I entered the price in here I might break TCDB 

As mentioned throughout the thread, patience, sheer patience. If it looks ridiculous and sounds ridiculous then you don't HAVE to do it. Am I kicking myself for not getting the Pulisic 16 Donruss RC when it was $5 (now $600+) yes, as I didn't want to pay even $5? Not really at the end of the day, the price will come down and I'll be able to complete the set. 

I love these "get off my lawn" threads that pop up from time to time.

We can all blame the card companies if we want, but keep in mind that Topps raises the wholesale price of their products about $1-2 per box per year.  Topps charges $52.50 for a box of wax and $88 for a box of jumbo 2020 Topps Update.  It isn't the fault of Topps that Update is difficult to find in WalMart and/or $200 a box at your LCS.  Demand is increasing for collecting cards as people in general have more time on their hands and expendable income.  As demand increases and supply stays the same, prices rise on the second-hand market.  It's basic economics.

Sure, Topps could increase supply of a product to meet a higher demand, but they learned in the 90's that isn't an ideal solution.  As it is with COVID right now, they are having a hard time keeping their printing process up to their established levels.  So many new buyers are ordering product from Topps that buyers like me who would only buy a few cases a year are getting squeezed out of the market.  Just two years ago I could get whatever I wanted at wholesale.  Now my orders are cut dramatically as Topps tries to keep card shops stocked at the expense of the smaller, on-line only shops like mine.

I know there are some on here that would say I'm not a collector because I buy with the intention of re-selling a large majority of what I have, but that's OK.  It's one of the reasons I never advertise my breaks and/or sales on this site.  I love my cards and spending time with them and selling gave me the extra cash to continue to expand my collection.  It worked for me, although ironically with the explosion of popularity in the market, I will have to discontinue my business as I can no longer get the product I need.  This also means that the growth of my personal collection will slow, but I'm still going to continue to collect.

Limited supply can explain high prices for packs and boxes, but it doesn't explain the same card with the same bland picture printed in 60 different inserts.

Beckett prices. I agree that a card is worth what someone will pay for it, not what a publication says it's worth. It can explain part of the brick and mortar LCS collapse. Most of them see Beckett has their sacred book and don't like to go below its prices, no matter if it makes sense or not. Some are more flexible and you also have the web. No wonder that trading is moving online. Why one would pay Beckett price in a some brick and mortar when he can buy the same card online for half the price, shipping included? I understand brick and mortar LCS have tons of operation costs, but their reticence to negociate means they lose all the sales instead of making less money, but being still able to pay their bills.