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engine614
Posts: 488
Joined: May 2013
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| Monday, May 11, 2020 3:55 PM | |
I like this BigEd76 about noting the cards. I also REALLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYY LIKE BOBSCARDZ paragraph 2. I for 1 could use an education about these options and think they could go a long way toward helping us deal with these issues.
REAL GOOD STUFF both of you :)
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BOBSCARDZ
Posts: 4,973
Joined: Nov 2014
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 5:33 AM | |
Joe, I feel for you. I do believe a lot of issues could be helped with some type of user guide. The FAQ, Rules & Guidelines are good and basicly tell us what NOT to do, but we really need something that tells what we COULD do. I would luv to share my "tricks of the trade" but fear it might open up more reprisals. Dan, suggests remaining "low-key", so I'll try, and subetly poke around the site for different avenues. I'm sure at some point you will run across some handi-work. Thx, Stay Well, ~BOB~
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sandyrusty
Posts: 4,512
Joined: Dec 2014
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 5:59 AM | |
I have always liked the use of Release Notes for as many sets as possible. I still think they are under-used and instead we are trying to highlight these minor differences by adding VAR for each and every "." or "*".
I know Release Notes exist for some sets. This feature was introduced 4 years ago, https://www.tcdb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/I/ID/0/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=3325&PageIndex=1, but to this day is still under-utilized and I believe unknown to many members.
Between this feature and the "Detailed Add" option for all members, many of these could be highlighted in anyone's collection if they so wished to collecct these without creating confusion for members who are entering their collection and don't realize or don't care that there is such a thing as a "." VAR.
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Bruno -------- Check my Profile page to see my 2023 Goals and my Lists of sets near completion (5 cards or less) or sets getting close (less than 100 cards missing and 75% complete). https://www.tcdb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/B/ID/0/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=25745&C=0
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jasongerman9
Posts: 1,824
Joined: Jan 2015
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 6:55 AM | |
Bruno, I'll agree and disagree. I agree that Release Notes, along with Detailed Add features and Tags, are some of the most under-used features of this site, and I really think they could make a difference for a lot of users. However, I disagree that they help here.
With the set completion totals, and the "add all missing cards to wantlist" feature, not acknowledging these variations (I don't believe in them myself but they're here) takes away a good portion of the site tools in that area for members who want to collect both. What if I want a full set of each one? Yes, I can denote which one I have in the "Details" of a particular card, but that doesn't help in the Transaction Manager or when I'm trying to create a wantlist.
Or, the set says I have 100%, but really I only have 76% because I'm missing a mix of the two styles. How do I know which ones without keeping a separate detailed list or sheet? The site is, among other things, meant to help alleviate the pain of hand-written sheets and lists (although I know Billy still enjoys doing it) with the wantlist function.
If these VARs are going to be documented here (again, I really don't think they should be but it's too late for that, even if my opinion mattered), I think that in order to make the site work for everyone the way it is intended to, they need to be done as VARs. And yes, I still say as VARs because if I don't care which one I have, I want a complete set, not half of one and half of a parallel. Or is how they're listed no longer a debate? 
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Nec Aspera Terrent I'll never quit collecting entirely, but I am downsizing. Check out my COMC store and help me thin out what I don't want so I can buy cards that I do want. See something you like? Send me a message on here, and we can knock the price down quite a bit. I'll even take a bit of a loss if it means getting you a card you really want.
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BOBSCARDZ
Posts: 4,973
Joined: Nov 2014
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 6:56 AM | |
Bruno, Sounds like Release Notes are another great avenue, BUT without permission level status it doesn't help users like me. That's part of the problem, we just go around in circles with these legit suggestions.
I also went back to read the 3yr old post, Seems like a lot of opinions tossed about, aren't they no-nos. lol!
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sandyrusty
Posts: 4,512
Joined: Dec 2014
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 7:11 AM | |
Bob, even without permission level 6, you an submit release notes to be approved by Admin. Only problem right now is that Admin needs more assistants if the delay in response to issues is any gauge.
I really think Release Notes if used more, would provide much needed information on many sets.
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Bruno -------- Check my Profile page to see my 2023 Goals and my Lists of sets near completion (5 cards or less) or sets getting close (less than 100 cards missing and 75% complete). https://www.tcdb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/B/ID/0/?MODE=VIEW&ThreadID=25745&C=0
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vrooomed
Posts: 14,276
Joined: Dec 2012
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 8:11 AM | |
This post really wasn't meant to spark any debate on how we're doing things, simply to let everyone know that the 1983 Topps Traded set will have something coming down the pike.
Bruno, unfortunately, the "Detailed Add" is less than ideal. Please go look at the collection information for this card:
https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/sid/5521/cid/1248633/1999-00-Pacific-Omega-88-Steve-Yzerman
Can you discern why I have 3 in my Yzerman collection? (And yes, they are all different.) If you can, then Detailed Add is working. If you cannot, then it's deficient.
As Jason pointed out, whether anyone likes these variations or not really doesn't matter for the site's sake, there is a variation, one that is considered a variation by the site's rules and guidelines, and therefore needs to be documented. And we need to accomodate all collectors. As many of these variations that I have ben a part of getting added here, it's ironic because I don't specifically collect them. But that's why the use of VAR is good for me (and the rest of us who don't want both versions and only want one version). It's also good for the people like griffey423 and Bob (and many others, just less vocal) who wish to have every version possible. Unfortunately, using the Detailed Add does not really serve either collector very well.
I am working closely with Admin on this one. When I know how we're proceeding, I will report here, and then do it.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 10/25/2023). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned off (details are in my profile). I have (finally) unearthed my 2 very large boxes of Star Company minor league sets and they are available (email for details).
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BOBSCARDZ
Posts: 4,973
Joined: Nov 2014
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 8:19 AM | |
Just like Jason, there are reasons to agree or disagree. For sure, many valid points made.
Bruno, I have L6 permission [just not enough pts.], leaving me at the mercy of ADMIN and the handful of assistants. To move along in an expedient and accurate manner, HELP is needed. Decisions, rules, guidelines need to be reevaluated. Posts get lost in time, and then resurface time and again, only to be replied to time and again. It's 2020, TCDb has been attracting new members in droves. Read the posts, many are clueless, even older-timers need a refresher course. lol. Whether members like it or not, a different variation question or post pops-up daily.
Jason, shame on you ! You are a respected L8 with alot of power to make changes, and influence members. You can't post.."variations (I don't believe in them myself but they're here) or If these VARs are going to be documented here (again, I really don't think they should be but it's too late for that, even if my opinion mattered)" are statements that are very bias. By saying these things you admit to being kinda anti-variation which undermines those that truly like and collect them. As well, Remember, opinions are no-nos. lol.
The shame is many of us luv it here, but collect differently.....these collecting differences bring out the worst in each of us over and over. We should be trying to help the site and each other...not attack, attack, attack all the time.
~BOB~
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vrooomed
Posts: 14,276
Joined: Dec 2012
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 8:57 AM | |
Having an opinions (and stating it) is not a no-no.
Non-adherence to the site's rules are a non-no.
If Jason willfully doesn't help add a valid variation or purposefully blocks it from being added (or removes one because he "doesn't agree") then he's not fulfilling his responsibility here.
I have disagreed with other listing methods here. We're allowed to have opinions. However, attempts to voice those opinions to create divisiveness amongst the membership would be subject to reprimand. So, although I don't like the way we list panels and the individaul cards, I have been known to be one of the more prolific "adders" of these items. Why? Because the site says that's how we'll list them here. Do I agree with that practice? Not particularly, but I undersatnd that's the directive, so I follow.
There, I just stated an opinion, one that is contrary to the site's rules/guidelines, but I'm not stating it in an attempt to get the rule changed (I already spoke with Admin privately about my opinion, site's rule isn't changing), I'm not stating it in an attempt to get others "to rally to my side" on the matter. When opinions are shared, there are ways of doing it where it's not an issue. If you can't tell the difference between expressing an opinion and trying to sound a rally cry, then maybe you should refrain from writing.
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-- Dan -- Note: Please see my profile for more info regarding trading (section updated 10/25/2023). I have added a large portion of my inventory to the site, and currently have trading turned off (details are in my profile). I have (finally) unearthed my 2 very large boxes of Star Company minor league sets and they are available (email for details).
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Sportzcommish
Posts: 5,668
Joined: Oct 2016
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| Tuesday, May 12, 2020 9:47 AM | |
May I suggest this as a VAR suffix for these?
This would help make transactions involving these available for trade easier. As it stands all that shows is VAR, and one has to look add at least two-three steps to ensure the correct VAR is chosen for the transaction.
Beyond that I'd wish other VAR had a tag with the "VAR" to avoid having to do this everytime one is working on a trade. It's not much work for just a few cards, but I've traded lots of '91 Donruss in single trades and it sure would have helped to see something like:
If I can help in something like this I'm willing to participate.
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“Aslan didn't tell Pole what would happen. He only told her what to do. That fellow will be the death of us once he's up, I shouldn't wonder. But that doesn't let us off following the signs.” - Puddleglum in The Silver Chair by C. S. Lewis
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