2001 Fleer Authority Baseball Forum

According to Beckett and BCP, Rafael Palmeiro and Manny Ramirez each have two different MEM PR240 hat cards ("71"/"72" for Palmeiro, "80"/"81" for Ramirez) in the Diamond Cuts insert set, which we have copied to our database. Any idea what the differences are between each player's hat cards?

I could not find any evidence of different Hat cards for these two players, with the exception of Beckett listing 2 Hat cards for each (but didn't have images).

I even checked some PSA collections, and they had 1 each of hat & bat. I am of the mind to remove these (as no one but a checklist without images has these) and on the remote chance there is a different version, we can add them back in when we have proof. This is a 20-year-old set now, with the interenet being around the entire time. If there had been 2 different hat cards of either of these players, there would be some proof somewhere.

The Manny Ramirez batting glove card (PR 200), which is listed with both a blue and red swatch, is supposedly two different gloves (PR 100 each).  I have personally seen a swatch that is both blue and red, leading me to wonder if the glove or gloves were multi colored.  I have both Manny Ramirez Hat cards, one is blue and the other is white.

We do not distinguish when the same material type is different colors. We have a note in place that there were 100 red gloves and 100 blue gloves for the one glove card listed for Ramirez.

I understand that, but it appears that Fleer did distinguish in the case of the Manny Ramirez hat relic.

No, everything about the card is exactly the same. Just the swatch used is different.

Just because someone else did, does not mean that we do. Different materials get different entries; different colors may get noted, but do not get a separate entry.

I would say that noting the distinction that "Manny Ramirez [and Rafael Palmeiro, should that situation be the same] hat relics can be found in both blue and white swatches of unknown quantities" would be sufficient for our purposes. It can be put in the Trivia or Release Notes for the set.

Because batting glove quantities are known, I think it's appropriate to enter that information in Note2. Not knowing the quantities of hat relics (there could be, for example, 1 red and 239 blue) would make it more reasonable to put in Release Notes/Trivia as opposed to Note2.

Edit to change my example using the correct colors referenced above.

Pingboy333 wrote:

I understand that, but it appears that Fleer did distinguish in the case of the Manny Ramirez hat relic.

There hasn't been anything said about the Ramirez or Palmeiro hat colors. I'm assuming all of the Ramirez ones are navy blue and all of the Palmeiro ones are royal blue, which is why I wondered why other sites listed two of each player. They don't even list the Ramirez batting gloves separately even when the breakdown was known.

Pingboy33 said that he had both Ramirez hats; one blue, and one white (I have since edited my previous post to reflect that, instead of blue and red).

My point is that the manufacturer recognizes two different Hat colors as two different cards (card "80" and card "81").  They also give Print Runs (240) for each Hat color (these Print Runs are also provided by the manufacturer and not on card).  In this instance, you would need to recognize both or you would eliminate a card from the manufacturers provided checklist.  I am behind listing different relic materials for the same card in the database, but very much against listing different colors.  This situation seems to be an exception.