Off-Topic Forum

How is not getting your end of a trade not mail fraud? especially if its a lot of people getting ripped off by the same person. any advice?

It is fraud but in Canada police forces look at this as so minor that they do not have time to investigate such reports. They do continually advise people to be wary of offers that are too good to be true, not pay for something on a promise, and to be cautious of people asking for donations to a grief caused by such a thing as a "house fire" where the poor family or young lad lost his collection of sportscards.

In the news, we continue to hear about such occurances be it by phone, email, or online selling sites. Yet with all the warnings, people still get duped. It is why it continues to happen; that and the fact that those committing fraud know it is highly unlikely that they will be sought out by law enforcement.

Just to add, this information was provided to me by an RCMP officer when I reported a potential fraud case when renting accommodation.

On the USPS website there's this:

"Any fraud that uses the U.S. Mail®—whether it originates in the mail, by phone, or online—is mail fraud. It’s a scheme to get money or something of value from you by offering a product, service, or investment opportunity that does not live up to its claims. Prosecutors must prove the claims were intentionally misrepresented and that the mail was used to carry out the scheme."

I've looked into it and found this but haven't ever filed a claim. If any case required further investment from my end such as fees then I'd surely drop it anyway.

From the info provided, I understand you did not receive the cards promised. This means the other party did NOT mail you any cards. Since the mail was not used it would not be mail fraud.

If the internet was used but not the mail, it would make it potentially wire fraud (18 USC 1343) vs mail fraud (18 USC 1341). 

At any rate, I agree with one of the earlier posts that the government would probably not pursue a case unless the fraud (under either statute) reached a sufficiently sensational value.

However, I’ve often wondered why more victims don’t report the issue, especially when it’s preliminary determined that the alleged culprit demonstrates a history of similar behavior. (I can think of a couple of forum threads here that seem to have identified situations where this seemingly was the case.) If enough alleged instances by the same person are reported that the aggregation of offenses demonstrates a pattern of behavior and sufficient value to pursued, my opinion is that the authorities will take notice and review for possible action.

The scam relies on the victim to send something using the USMail so although the scammer didn’t send their end of the deal it still relies on the USMail to complete the scam. 

Unlike the “prince from Nigeria” that requires you to send money electronically.

Either way, it’s the US judicial system so it’s not going to work on behalf of us peasants anyway. 

I take it as overall dealings not just here.   Sorry I reread the title and it is here.     Most trading sites I have joined do have a bad trader list.  Some are very long.   I asked Admin about doing something like that and he replied, "that is what the feedback is for".      Most members do not like giving bad feedback as most are real good people and trust people.  If you really think they ripped you off then DO it.  If you feel it may have been lost in the mail and they are not willing to make it right then note that. Then that goes to He said She said thing.

I talked to PO personal (Second to the top man at Boulder CO.)    He basely told me that I would have to do all or most of the work proving it was fraud before they would do anything.   As he put it and hated to say it.  They are understaffed and over worked and a good number of them are just LAZY.   That was several years ago and who knows things may have changed.

If you feel the other side did indeed scam you, since you have the address you sent the cards from your own side, you can always contact the local police in the area the other person lives.  I know my local police are very clear that they will follow up on every call that comes in regardless of how big or small it is.  Even if nothing comes from it, it might scare them enough that they wont scam anyone else after you.

I think a major issue would be how do you prove the person didn't send the cards as opposed to our inept postal service losing said cards? Now in the case of someone with multiple instances of cards not arriving you might be able to show a pattern to establish a probable crime but on single instances it is just as likely that USPS has done its usual bang up job of screwing the pooch.

Every mail piece is photographed when it’s processed and a prosecutor would only need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person didn’t drop it in the mailbox, not beyond any doubt.  At the end of the day it would be a matter of fact for a jury to decide