Off-Topic Forum

The shame about Bonds is that when he was in a Pirates uniform, he was starting to put up numbers that would have gotten him consideration without the HR totals he put up when with the Giants.  His 1990-1991 stats showed a player coming into his own - SB, Ave, Hits, HR. And he was above average defensively. He was lean and fast and could hit. I collected him back then even before it became about HR only. Whether the steroids had started then, I don't know but the inflated body was well after he joined the Giants.

Since none of know who actually used, I simply cannot successfully separate the two, so why try?  Because I *THINK* they did?  If the estimates are true and 50-70% of the players in the game were using something, then Bonds/Clemens were the best of the cheaters.  My ballot would look like, in no particular order:

• David Ortiz (Dominant bat for a long time)
• Jimmy Rollins (along with Utley, was the heart and soul of one of the best teams in baseball from about 2007-2011)
• Alex Rodriguez (Unbelievable stats - yes he did actually fail a drug test, but was suspended for an entire year because of it)
• Curt Schilling (Post season career puts him over the edge)
• Barry Bonds (Unbelievable stats - never actually failed a drug test)
• Roger Clemens (Unbelievable stats - never actually failed a drug test)
• Scott Rolen (Excellent career and 3B is vastly underrepresented in the HOF for some reason)
• Billy Wagner (Take a look at his numbers.  Video game stuff.  I realize he was "only" a relief pitcher, but seriously?)

If I thought more about it, I would probably add two more to get to 10.  But at first blush, these are the ones that deserve strong consideration.

I changed my mind on the steroids thing a long time ago.  If there was a drug that I could take that had no test for it, wasn't technically viewed as illegal, and would make me so much better at my job that I could get paid 2-3 times as much as I do now, I have a hard time believing I wouldn't do it. Add onto that dillema that potentially half of my co-workers are already using?  Becomes a no brainer for me.  And why is there such a stigma with baseball?  Football players fail drug tests and our first question is how will the defense survive the next four weeks without player X?

I agree that if I could take something that wasn't viewed as, "illegal," and it could help my performance, I am sure that I might do it as well. It was never said, "PLEASE NO TAKING PEDs TO BOOST YOUR OVERALL PLAY." Its own not like they are taking black market cocaine like some in the 80's might have as these were being sold OTC the entire time! Like I said, we could discuss this forever.

Only Bonds and Clemens are ALL time greats . All the others are just good players in thier time. 

I wouldn't put Crawford in, but as a "Devil Rays" fan (that's right), I watched him on a nightly basis and few people realize how great he was, particularly after his career nose-dived in Boston. Nice to see CC on the ballot.

I'd easily vote for Vizquel. 9 Gold Gloves in a row, nearly 3000 hits. At age 39, he hit .295, stole 24 bases and won his 11th GG. #13 most games played all-time. Pretty impressive. 

its funny how people get all in a twist about steroids. Last I checked steroids didn't help your hand eye cordination or make a sloppy swing suddenly majestic. Some supplements were and still are available over the counter. Motrin could be construed as an enhancer. Extra cup of coffee, hell I just took a fist full of vitamins with Glucosamine. Anyone can walk into a CVS and walk out with something that could cost an athlete a few games, a season, a career, even the HOF. That is just wrong and for the Hall to spin it like they are preserving the integrity is BS. No one wants the Hall to be watered down but to just ignore it and snub deserving players is wrong. 

Ryan Thibodaux has placed his live HOF tracker in the below location. For those who don't know, he tracks the publically disclosed ballots and tracks each candidate's progress.

2022 BBHOF Tracker.xlsm - Microsoft Excel Online (live.com)

Glad you posted that, I always look forward to seeing that.  I don't know who I'd vote for this year, but I would be pretty sure Bonds would get a vote.  Looks like so far Schilling is losing votes, but I think that probably has to do with his post playing days.

Hall of Fame going through a silly period until Bonds and Clemens are enshrined.

Silly indeed. Let's imagine taking your young kid who is just learning about baseball to the HOF. 
Kid:  "Dad, let's go see the player who has the most HRs"
Dad: "Uhm, he's not in here"
Kid:  "Dad, let's go see the player who has the most hits"
Dad: "Uhm, he's not in here"
Kid:  "Dad, let's go see the player who won the most CYs"
Dad: "Uhm, he's not in here"
Kid: "Why aren't they in here?"
Dad: "Well, they weren't moral enough people and some took chemicals they shouldn't have, now let's go over here and look at the truly charming Ty Cobb and Roberto Alomar, the certainly didn't use HGH Jeff Bagwell, and truly one of the all time greatest superstars Harold Baines." 

Alex Matthew wrote:

Hall of Fame going through a silly period until Bonds and Clemens are enshrined.