General Forum

so let's hope COMC can be added like Sportslots and others if it is a workable solution.

When people say its not about the money, its always about the money -- I certainly wish I had so much money that I could freely spend on cards without thinking it would certainly be nice to get at least some of that money back.  I don't identify with the term investor with cards, but I think one of the attractive features of collecting for people could very well be the idea that, if you spend the time to learn about cards and the whole card scene along the way, you could actually accumulate a collection that could be sold in whole or in part one day and you could get even a fraction of the money you spent over the years. Even getting 25% of what was ultimately spent would be incredibly satisfying because you are passing on cards with some meaning to you to someone who wanted them, and you actually got a little cash in your pocket. If somehow it ended up being a significant amount of money, all the more satisfying -- thats probably a pipe dream but it could happen and I refuse to believe it is impossible to ultimately have a collection of 1,000 cards that could somehow have a value and be sold with a $20 average per card. I really think I could sell someone rookie cards of Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton some day for something even if they hadn't heard of them before talking to me; even Jermaine O'Neal (the player who had the best punch in the biggest melee in NBA history!), and it would be fun actually trying. There is something about the idea of being able to sell something I collected that lets me know you I was a good collector or some validation, and its also going to be funny to find out I did not collect anything of value to others.  

Anyways, this differentiates collecting from other hobbies or activities where you have nothing to show for it afterwards other than a memory (going to a sporting event is actually incredibly expensive and may be enjoyable but likely not going to be that memorable). Memories are great, but memories plus a little cash is always a little bit better. I really think this is an appealing part of the hobby that shouldn't be discounted and actually promoted to an extent to attract more people who would enjoy it. For all the people who give cards to people, I also have to think they also have values in mind just to know what they are in fact giving; I am sure the people receiving the cards would hope that values would be considered and they would not be receiving cards that were worthless. But values are always helpful to some degree no matter how someone collects and whatever it is they do with that collection.

Its also kind of fun to just think about market principles as applied to cards, what might go up or down in the long term, make a play on a hunch or theory, and then watch it play out over time. I'm making a big time play on 1986 Topps baseball and I am looking forward to seeing whether it pans out at all in 30 years, and even if not I will enjoy being the only person talking up the beauty and glory of each and every card in that set.

I don't think being taken seriously as an asset class by investors really is that important, or to take cards that seriously at all. Think of Trekkies -- it is dorky and weird and perhaps at one point they were mocked, but as a whole I think Trekkies as a group are actually taken quite seriously because there is substance and intelligence behind the silliness, and I think most people would think they are accomplished people having fun. Stars Wars fans, on the other hand.....

Okay, I thought I would just get in on this debate with my poignant thoughts, and I assume the debate is now resolved and over.

Bringing in the comparisons to crypto and the stock market to trading cards in ludicrous.

Here's why:

They are not equivalent - at least, not anymore.

Crypto and stocks each have thousands upon thousands of shares (or potential shares), while the cards of today are usually limited to 1,000 or less (except for base cards, which as we all know, do not hold the "bang" value). Comparing these entities is like comparing apples to oranges. Each card has too small of a market and doesn't have single-threading of sales (can only buy stocks through NASDAQ or NYSE, can't buy NASDAQ stocks on the NYSE. 

Oh they can be compared :)

I could go into a full explanation and break down the argument but Im not,

to bed I go

This site was originally a database, to catalog your cards.  I believe its still in the title.  Members eventually started trading but the site really had no hand in it.  However it started getting popular and the site acknowledged that it was beneficial to help those that wanted to trade but held no responsibilities about bad trades (though with improvements like feedback, it helped to know who you could trust).  It took many years for that leap.

I bring this up because a very small percentage actually sell on this site (I know there are plenty that do, and nobody is against them for doing it), but the majority that do deals mainly trade.  It would take a lot more people who actively sell on the site to make more changes that would benefit sellers.  I believe the solution was working a deal with Sportslots.  Just an assumption I don't know.  My point is, this thread started as something (not even sure anymore, something about API's or such) and is now about ROI's and Crypto.  That isn't my cup of tea, but kudos to those that partake.  Same with NFT's (which I care about as much as digital cards).

I liked the site when it was a database.  Maybe I'm not a fan of changes, and the hobby has changed a lot in the last few years not for the better.  The site seems to have changed a lot too.  If it starts to catering to the new guard then it will alienate what brought the people here in the first place- to be a database.  I have no desire for ROI's on pictures of people on cardboard.  I was never into collecting cards (or much of anything for that matter) to make money.  If it happened it, happened, but it was never the goal.  I remember sitting on the bus trading cards after school.  I remember trading for a couple Rex Hudler cards.  Was it to turn a profit?  No, it was because I wanted that card and was willing to give up a couple cards I had doubles of or didn't want.  Did it matter if it was Dale Davis?  No, it just meant I got cards I wanted and the trader got what he wanted.  Much like a lot of these posts in this thread I'm rambling at this point, so I'll leave it at this-

The site is a database, anything beyond that is just extra.  Let's focus on the database part.  As new member's come in and have ideas, the older ones will listen, they may not agree, but they'll listen.  The balance is not to alienate the members who came for the database.  Introducing ROI's and more modern practices could alienate those members more.  Just my 1.40 cents (though Sportslots might have adjusted it to .18 by the time you read this).

Hi Jupiterhill,

I hope this finds you well.

None of the ideas proposed would change the database function only bring more information that would be useful for some.

The discussion of sales data is not about selling on this site but a collection of sales data to bring more information that the data can be useful to collectors and sellers. This information would help or perhaps guide them with the trades they do. 

It sounds like you have enjoyment on your trades and sometimes that is a great return on investment for oneself.

I was shocked when I read this because I thought this site only takes sold prices, not offers or opening bid prices so I just looked it up.  The 18 cent prices are from 2012, when the card was still very cheap in value.  You can see mid way into 2012 it started climbing slowly and began to really jump in 2015.
If you look up that card it didn't really take off until 2016 so what imported in are realistic reflections of the price over time.

The median price reflect on the card is from the last 5 sale prices uploaded.  As long as they are close to accurate, the price is close to accurate and $710 is close to accurate right now).

https://www.baseball-rookies.com/mike-trout-57397/

I agree, 

It's good to have a history of prices and also a current average price in the database.

But what's most fun is getting lots of cards to sort.

There could always be the option of just taking it slow and steady and have the value/prices be from the verified transactions on this site. I think a major plus for anyone looking at the prices on this site is that, whatever way its calculated, it is easily understandable so they can make a determination on how or whether they want to rely on that price for anything. Once you take it from another site like Sports Lots you have to then figure out how its calculated over there. Keeping it in house from this site and its members would just make it take a lot longer to accumulate good numbers for so many cards , but it could be worth the wait instead of getting a lot more data quickly from other sites, and that data is going to have its own unique problems from site to site; data from more sites just adds more problems to figure out and analyze, if the data is from this site only the problems with that data, whatever it could be, would at least be a lot easire to understand.

Getting data inputted from site members here might not necessarily involve reviewing everything submitted one by one; there could be a feature in the transaction part where, during a sale, the parties will have the option of attributing prices to cards in a multi-card sale and it could be automated from there.

There are not enough sales on this site to use pricing solely from sales made here.  As well, the idea that over time, a more accurate price would be realized as more sales are made for a particular card is not sound.  A card that is sold three times but in the span of several years would not have an accurate value price reflected.  A perfect example is the Trout RC referred to earlier in this thread.

I think the bringing on of Sportslots pricing is an excellent starting place for those who must have some sort of pricing to figure out the balance of a trade. I think 18 or now 20 cents for commons is too high but it is better than some of the sold listings from ebay that start at $1. (I don't deny that the sales were made but it those are single cards bought by someone who badly needed that particular card for their collection.) Sportslots is an accumulation of asking prices from many sellers. In vintage cards, you can also compare condition (though "graded' by the seller). For those who made the observation that it now groups star and future HoF base cards at the same price as the most common of cards, yes on the surface it does but it remains the perogative of any member to decline a trade that is asking for all current stars' cards in exchange for the same number of commons.  I have received such offers and have (happily) declined them. Fortunately there are more members here who are more than fair in their offers to acquire cards they really want; in some trades, I have actually Countered, adding cards for them to better balance out the trade.

The one big gain in bringing on Sportslots pricing is that now the majority of cards will have a price reflected on the card's page.  A few days ago, I was looking at the 1968 OPC Tony Perez card page which at first did not have a price but within less than a minute after first opening it, I refreshed the page and there was now a price based on 2 different listings in Sportslots.

It remains each collector's right to place his own value for any of his cards he wishes to sell and to place a maximum value he is willing to pay to acquire a card (including shipping costs). Most of us here are not in it as an investment; I definitely am not. Rather, most here are willing to go well below the listed prices to move unwanted cards and help someone gain cards for their collection. Right now, I am close to picking up almost 2,000 cards from another member. This includes many Topps commons I need but also some of the prized RC in those same years. I know the price will be well under the total Sportslots price; but Sportslots does give us both a good idea of a fair price.

Bottom line: use it as a guide, especially when you are not sure of the current value of a particular card.